Last Saturday our men's group ran into a theological issue that caused a little stir. Its funny, because that actually rarely happens in our group. Intellectual, theological debate is just not what we are normally about. We are really about preparing God's men for works of service, we are about fellowship and we are about spiritual growth.
Now, to get the controversy started let me say this. I personally don't think this is a particularly big issue -- although I do think there is a "right" answer. Its certainly not a salvation issue. In fact, if I thought it were anything other than a disputable matter I wouldn't raise it on the internet. You see, I am far more concerned about unity in the body than about these types of issues. So, let's have a healthy debate on this one. When we are done, I might give you my view.
So, here we go. You might remember that God was not too big on the idea of giving Israel a King. God figured He was all they needed. But, people will be people, and the Israelites wanted a King like the other nations had.
God is kind of funny this way, but sometimes after He tells us what we need if there is enough persistence on our part He instead gives us what we want. And so it was with the Israelites and their desire for a King:
6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do.”
1 Samuel 8:6-9 (NIV). (I seem to be preaching again -- my apologies!)
In any event, in time Saul, not surprisingly, disobeyed a direct command from God. God then said this to Samuel, who had anointed Saul as King at God's instruction:
11 “I greatly regret that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments.” And it grieved Samuel, and he cried out to theLord all night.
1 Samuel 15:11 (NKJV).
So, the question is this: If God "regretted" appointing Saul as King, did He not know the outcome at the time Saul was chosen? In other words, God has given us free will, but does He know how we will exercise that will? Just something to ponder.
5 comments:
Okay, I couldn't resist because I literally just turned this in for my THEO 626 Doctrine of God class...I left out the actual footnotes for brevity's sake but it compares Arminianism with Calvinism which is essentially a discussion on "free will." While I don't give my opinion, I do shed some light on the two differing viewpoints...I am doing this in two comments because of word count limitations:
III. Providence and Arminianism
To understand the Arminian view of providence, analyzing their view of foreknowledge is helpful. For the Arminian, “the predetermination of the destiny of individuals is based on God’s foreknowledge of the way in which they will either freely reject Christ or freely accept
him.”8 Simply put, for the Arminian, foreknowledge is just knowledge; it does not predetermine or cause a person’s actions, although it knows what those actions will be. God’s foreknowledge is exhaustive but not causal. Coming from this perspective, it seems that God’s providence is limited by the free will of His creatures. Thus, when it comes to a discussion of the problem of evil from an Arminian viewpoint, it is easy to understand the consequences of sin regarding depraved humanity making poor choices. John Sanders represents this viewpoint in his book The God Who Risks9 when he writes that “God’s ‘plans’ are better seen as overarching goals or destinations, which allow for considerable flexibility, rather than a set of detailed blueprints.”10 He points out that God set limits from the beginning when He told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree.11 God gave Adam and Eve the freedom to respond by their own decision but He also gave them consequences for going outside of the limits He set. An Arminian viewpoint would contend that while God already knew what the results of their choice would be, Adam and Eve were free in how they decided to respond. They chose to disobey and their disobedience had unpleasant consequences, just as the result of sin does today. Sanders observes that if God habitually vetoed the sinful acts of man, then His beloved creatures would be no more than automatons. God desires a reciprocal love that is not forced. “God cannot prevent all the evil in the world and still maintain the conditions of fellowship intended by his overarching purpose in
creation.”12 Feinberg writes in regards to the thought process of free will defenders, “God reasoned that it was worth putting up with the possibility and actuality of us using freedom to do evil, because he preferred to have creatures who love and obey him because they want to rather than because they are forced to do so.”13 Grudem sums up the Arminian view in their belief that God’s goals are achieved not through specific details since he does not force our voluntary choices, but rather, that He responds to our choices in a way that ultimately accomplishes His purposes.14
Part 2
IV. Providence and Calvinism
An important aspect of the Calvinist view of providence is that of concurrence: “the simultaneity of divine and human agency in specific actions and events.” Affirming soli Deo gloria does not deny the role of humans, but when a doctor heals a patient he is the secondary cause – the primary cause is God.15 McCormack notes that concurrence is cooperation – how God interacts with rational creatures in order to insure His will is done.16 Calvin summarized his position as “the will of God is the one principal and all-high cause of all things in heaven and on earth!”17 Feinberg comments regarding God’s sovereignty that He has “chosen at once the whole
interconnected sequence of events and actions that have and will occur in our world.”18 God
governs the world He has made, preserving the natural order and caring for every single creature.19 Grudem summarizes the Calvinist approach to the problem of evil in a series of statements:
“God uses all things to fulfill His purposes and even uses evil for His glory and for our good (Romans 8:28)
Nevertheless, God never does evil, and is never to be blamed for evil (James 1:13-14)
God rightfully blames and judges moral creatures for the evil they do (Isaiah 66:3-4)
Evil is real, not an illusion, and we should never do evil, for it will always harm us and others (Matthew 6:13)
In spite of all of the foregoing statements, we have to come to the point where we confess that we do not understand how it is that God can ordain that we carry out evil deeds and yet hold us accountable for them and not be blamed Himself.” Scripture teaches these things but does not explain how.20
In regards to free will, Grudem writes that people make willing choices that have real effects but “an absolute ‘freedom,’ totally free of God’s control is simply not possible in a world providentially sustained and directed by God himself.”21 The Calvinist view is expressed beautifully in the story of Stonewall Jackson and how through his belief in the complete sovereignty of God maintained his tranquility as a battle raged all around. When asked how he could be so calm, Jackson replied, “my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death; I do not concern myself with that, but to be always ready, whenever it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live; then all men would be
equally brave.”22
I wholeheartedly agree with John that this is not a salvation issue but I personally belong in the Arminian camp. This does not mean He is not in control, but that His I believe that God has given us free will to choose, although He knows in advance what our choice will be because He is omniscient, immutable, and omnipotent.Praise God!
I like this quote by Howard which sums up God’s will in regards to humanity, “Though we are always in God’s determined will (His plan), we may or may not be in His desired will (His pleasure).”39 The presence of evil may be explained by the human violation of His desired will, but His ultimate plan can never be circumscribed.
Wow Nancy Golden! Fantastic response, in an age of raw opinion that flies off social media, it was entirely refreshing to read a well researched piece of information that left me walking away feeling enriched. Thank You
We had this conversation at home a couple of months ago. Although I couldn't explain it as well as Nancy did, I managed to tell my son that God's forward knowledge does not limit our free will. Thank you John for the post.
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